Ok so as the sadness wears away, the end of an era, an epic show, a TV phenomenon I cant help but be annoyed, befuddled and feeling a bit cheated.
I really really had my hopes that there would be MORE answers!
Dont get me wrong, the very very ending when Jack and his Dad were in the back of the church and Jack was coming to the realization of death was a beautiful idea of what happens when we pass on. I really did she a tear with the idea of your loved ones that were an impacting part of your life being WITH you as you continue your transition to heaven. It was also pretty sad just that it was over and to have all the characters in one place.
What i DID understand and LOVE about the tail end of the finale was how they got each other to remember and each "survivors" character kind of came full circle by "replaying" vital moments in their lives in the flashsideways
speaking of flashsideways: WTF!!!!!!!!!!! anyone want to explain to me the meaning/reference/representation...WHAT IT ALL MEANS?!
The whole 2.5hrs was also very action packed, but as the minutes ticked away, I just kept saying to myself "ummm ok...wait, what?!"
I kept trying to piece what we learned tonight to the last 6 seasons, but to know avail. I really am very confused as to what the overall story is.
also...there was alot of speculation about the very ending with Matthew Fox's death...and I have been up late arguing this with Justin:
What is the meaning of Jack laying in the jungle watching a plane fly by and out of nowhere VINCENT (the dog) comes and lays beside him!
anyone with any good clear concise, 1+1=2 answers PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post!
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Okay, I feel very simple-minded. I don't really understand at all. Were they all dead in the ORIGINAL plane crash? EVERYTHING that happened on the island was purgatory or transition to the afterlife? Is this what everyone else is assuming happened? If so, what were all the whispers in the woods (the cheesy line with Michael declaring "we're the ones that could not move on" How was that different than the 'survivors' that were not whispering in the woods?)? If they all died in the original plane crash, then what did the flashsideways mean? Their lives if they had survived the plane crash? I don't understand that at all. If any of the characters had sided with MIB, would they have gone to hell? I am sort of mad b/c there was a lot of speculation in the first two seasons about the ending of this show and the writers stated that the characters were not dead, it was not a dream, and it was not about purgatory....
ReplyDeleteMeg,
ReplyDeleteI think what Christian said to Jack meant that the island DID happen - that was real life. The sideways world was not necessarily reality, that was more of a "purgatory" state, where Jack and the others needed to go through that to find redemption in themselves, so that they could let go and make their way to heaven. I liked that Christian actually WAS a "shepard" for Jack. Jack really died on the island, but in order to actually let go, he needed to go through everything in Sideways world, just like they all did. Matthew Fox said on Jimmy Kimmel last night that in some cultures, they believe that you need to relive your death before you can actually allow yourself to move on, and that is possibly what happened to Jack and the others. I really liked that aspect of it too, C - that they all helped each other let go and they were able to go to heaven (or whatever afterlife you personally believe in) together. That last scene was really great.
Also, they all died at different times- Shannon really died on the island, Sayid died when the bomb went off, Kate/Sawyer/Claire died at some point after they got off the island, we don't know how or when. But they all let go together and moved on to the afterlife together. I think that Ben wanted to have more time with Alex in Sideways world, to continue his redemption, so he didn't want to move on yet (and I thought it was cool that Hurley referenced the fact that they were the #1 and 2 on the island, but I guess we don't know how Hurley was able to die...but then my brain starts to hurt when I think about that)
What ticked me off at first is: hello, WHAT THE F IS THE ISLAND?! They didn't even answer that! BUT - the more I think about it, I guess the more OK I am with just accepting that the island is a "cork" for evil and the source for good, and weird things happen there, but there doesn't necessarily need to be an explanation. However, I do feel that this is a teeny, tiny bit of a cop-out on the part of the writers, but I get that they've been saying all along that this was a story about the characters and their experiences, not necessarily explaining why the island was the way that it was.
One thing that bothered everyone at my viewing party last night was not explaining that, and not explaining why people couldn't keep their babies on the island. I have heard the theory that it was Jacob's doing, that he didn't believe that the Others were good enough to reproduce and stay on the island forever, so he didn't allow them to have babies. Claire conceived off of the island and also was a candidate, so she was an exception in some way.
I'm still trying to wrap my brain around it, but that's what I have so far.
Theen, So I had also thought that the island stuff was all 'real' but then, in the very last shot they showed the untouched plane wreckage on the beach, like the survivors had never even gotten out of the plane...?
ReplyDeleteI have to start at the end. Jack is looking up at the sky, ready to die, and he sees an airplane fly overhead. THATS OCEANIC FLIGHT 815! Remember, on the plane the black lady says to him, "You can let go now". So then the "sideways world" is really a moment in time between life and death. Some call it Purgatory...I'm not sure if it is exactly that. I think that moment in time between life and death is created so that the individual can make amends for the mistakes they made while they were alive or maybe it is a grace period for the individual to acknowledge and come to grips with the fact that they are indeed dead.
ReplyDeleteThen they all go to Heaven. I found the ending to be very moving. Jack's father comes and welcomes him into the Light. Not only that, but all the people that he loved the most were there, waiting for him to come join them in Heaven.
The characters on Lost all really lived and died. Some died on the island while others (Kate, Sawyer, Claire, the pilot, Miles, and Richard) escaped from the island and lived their lives until their last day.
The battle between good and evil is for me what Lost is all about. Its a daily struggle to determine which side is victorious. In the case of this small group of people, good prevailed over evil. A majority of these people that we have watched for so long end up in Heaven. Whether or not some characters went to Hell (Whitmore, Ben, Richard, Walts father) is up for debate. Lost also tells us that good and evil are at war and will remain at war until the end of time. Jack passes the mantle to Hurley and Ben. When they are through they will pass it on to others. As long as The Light burns it must be protected. Good vs Evil.....the battle continues.
Here are some things that I do not get:
1. Why did Locke (The Smoke Monster) lose his power at the end?
2. Richard and Miles were not in the church at the end...what happened to them?
3. Was the dog on the island before the plane crashed?
I have more questions I just cant think of any right now..AHHH!!
Meg, I took that as more of an homage to the show, to bring you back to where it all started- not to say that they all died. I think that if you are to take it as everyone died, then they would have clearly shown the bodies of everyone. I also think that's why the writers specifically had Christian tell Jack that what happened was real...because, wouldn't that be how he knew everyone in the church? If they all died after the original crash, then they wouldn't know each other or be important to each other at all.
ReplyDeleteJustin, I think that Locke lost his power when Desmond pulled out the cork, because it was after that when Jack hit him and he began to bleed and became mortal. Don't ask me WHY, lol, but that is how I took it.
I also think that Miles and Richard were not in the church because they weren't as important to Jack as everyone else, and, in turn, Miles and Richard didn't need those people to pass on. I assume that if Richard needed assistance passing on, that his "church" would have only been his wife. With Miles, don't know, but again maybe he didn't need assistance in passing on or, if he did, those people would not be the most important people in his lives. That's how Christian explained it to Jack - the people in the church were the most important people to him, and to each other. I also like to think that Walt didn't need assistance in passing on, because he was young and didn't need "redemption" like everyone else in the Sideways world. And I love your ideas about good vs. evil, so true.
And the dog was Walt's :-) I loved how he laid with Jack while Jack died. So moving!
PS: I think that the plane was Lapidus, Kate, Claire, Sawyer, etc., and Jack was smiling b/c he knew that dying was worth it, that his friends were able to leave the island now. BUT - I do like how it can be open to interpretation!
I'm ok with this finale. The more I think about it the more I really like it, actually. I didn't expect to get a lot of answers, and I'm not sure that would have made things much better. The answers we have gotten in the past have often left me feeling a little bit underwhelmed - like when Micheal told Hurley about what the voices on the island were. Eh. To answer every unresolved thing on this show would have been a two and half hour laundry list of disjointed themes. I'm happy that we got to see these characters be sent off with the feeling that they resolved their issues and found some peace, or were on their way to doing so. I like that we are left thinking about what it all means, even after the show is over.
ReplyDeleteAs for the wreckage on the beach, I took that to confirm that the plane actually crashed and sideways land wasn't a possibility. Was it really untouched, though? I kind of got the feeling that it had been there for a very long time - long after all of the castaways died or left the island. My TV is kind of small, though, so I'll be sure to pay better attention when I watch again online.
As for Justin's questions, I think Smokey lost his powers when Desmond uncorked the magic light. I haven't quite figured it out, but the light is where he was created so maybe his power is derived from there. When it was disturbed, he became vulnerable? There were a lot of people missing from the church at the end - Richard, Miles, Ben, Ana Lucia, Micheal, Walt, Daniel, Charlotte, etc. I think that the people who were there were 'ready' to go if they had resolved their issues. I think they were also people who were really important in Jack's life. Regarding Vincent, I think he was chilling with Rose and Bernard and wandered over to Jack as he was dying (I don't think I buy your theory about the plane Jack saw being Oceanic 815 - it was the plane that had just taken off from the island).
Also, I think you'll all be happy to hear that I cried pretty much through the entire episode. I was worried about myself after that submarine explosion.
I think you guys have summed it up pretty well, so I'm going to give you a disjointed list of observations and thoughts:
ReplyDeleteI agree that those that weren't in the church weren't ready (Desmond told Hurley that Ana Lucia wasn't ready) or weren't important to Jack's moving on.
Did anyone else notice that the stained glass window on the church had several different religious symbols, representing all (or some) of the religions that the writers borrowed from?
What happened on the island was what really happened, and the plane (I believe) was the plane flown by Lapedus (sp?), but it did mimic flight 815 flying over 3 years prior.
I thought that the literal cork was kind of cheesy, and I too was disappointed when we learned earlier in the season that the voices were those that couldn't move on. That being said, I don't think all of the answers were needed, it leaves a bit a of mystery, and room for interpretation. When you're dealing with a story about people, there are always going to be things that go unanswered. For instance, they never showed how Boone was awakened (unless I missed it).
I loved the joke Kate cracked about Christian Shepard's name.
I was really hoping Vincent would be in the finale, and was so happy that he was. I thought it was perfect that he was with Jack as he died. Dogs have a sense about those things.
Now more than ever i am happy that I put together this blog because it will allow me to tap into some well-needed resources.
ReplyDeleteam i the only one still confused?
Im really getting frustrated. For so many seasons, and even since starting this blog I have been able to make insightful connections, observations and close analyzations...but i couldnt connect the finale!
this whole "flashsideways" really has me thrown. Why did we see it. And how were the activities that went on in each characters "other"world relevant.
i.e. If it was an in-between before they moved on, what was the point of some of them reconnecting and making each other aware/having an awakening? Why did they have to be brought to a rememberance state? Why was desmond the herder of these connections between people?
What is the point of Jack having a son, and patching the relationship with him for him to "move on" and "let go"
I think the flash sideways world was a creation of all the separate characters and what their lives might have been like if they had been able to choose. I think the island let them have the space to do that.
ReplyDeleteI think the point of Jack having a son in sideways land was that he got to figure out some of his issues with his own father. He realized what was missing in that relationship and fixed it with his own son. He was able to have a relationship with his sister who he hadn't known about. The scene with Jack, Claire, and David having breakfast together last week was really sweet thinking back on it now. I think Jack was really content there with his family. We've never seen Jack as a content, happy person before. He got to do it in sideways land and have a little bit of peace as he was dying on the island.
All of the characters had something like this in the flash sideways. Sawyer was a detective instead of criminal. He was able to channel the loss of his family in a more positive way. Kate was still a fugitive, but she didn't seem to actually be guilty. Sun and Jin, even though they weren't married and still had issues with Sun's father, were very happy together. Locke was able to have his relationship with Helen and had a different perspective on his disability and a different relationship with his father. Hurley still won the lottery, but instead of everything going horribly wrong, everything went mostly right for him. They were all able to figure out the 'wrong' stuff for them and it allowed them to be able to move on.
The other people who weren't quite ready to 'go' probably had their own reasons. Ben apologized to Locke for killing him, so I think he was on his way. But, he did do many terrible things in his life so maybe he wanted stay and work out his issues with manipulating and killing so many people and his issues with Alex and Rousseau. Eloise asked Desmond not to take Daniel. I think she was still struggling with the fact that she killed her own son and that her actions orchestrated it. In this world, she lets him follow his piano-playing dreams and gets to hang out with him.
What was the point of the castaways having to make connections to move on? I'm not sure, but I think it has something to do with how they were all connected in real life. Remember the first couple of seasons when we were first learning about these people and it turned out that they were connected in some way? Sawyer hung out in a bar with Jack's dad in Australia, Shannon's dad was the other guy in the accident that brought Jack's wife into the hospital, etc. Their lives were intertwined before the crash, became more connected on the island, and so they come back together before they move on to whatever happens after they die.
I don't know if I'm explaining my thoughts on this very well. I feel like I 'got it' almost immediately, or at least my interpretation of it. It's been screwing with my mind a little that I was cool with all of this purgatory/afterlife business pretty much as soon as it was presented, since I’m not usually into that sort of thing.
Anyway, Claudette, I don't know if this helps you at all. Maybe you need to 'let go' a little as you think about the finale. What happened, happened ;)
Sarah, if it helps, your take is exactly how I saw it, too :-)
ReplyDeleteI also think there may not be a "reason" as to why Desmond was the "herder" (I like how you phrased that, being that Christian was the shepard), but it could be simply that he was "special" - he was able to be totally aware both in Sideways world and Island world of what was happening in the other. None of the other characters could do that...so none of the other characters could play that role in the Sideways world. Plus, I really liked that it was Desmond who brought them together in Sideways world because I love Desmond, lol. Further, if you think about it, it was Des who caused the plane to crash by failing to push the button, wasn't it...so in a way, maybe this was HIS redemption - helping his island friends move on. I didn't think about that until I started typing it, don't know if it's true, but I kind of like that idea.
Ohh, that is a fantastic idea about Desmond. I like it!
ReplyDeleteI did notice the church window and thought it was really cool. I'm pretty sure that church was the same one where Eloise hung out to determine the position of the island? Also, I really enjoyed Kate in the finale - from her quip about Christian Shephard's name to her saving a bullet for fake Locke. That was the first time in a long time that I actually felt Jack and Kate's relationship as a legitimate thing.
And Vincent. Dude. I always worried about him for some reason and hoped he hadn't met a terrible end with a boar or some other scary thing on the island. I was happy to see him with Rose and Bernard and I nearly died crying when he came to be with Jack so Jack didn't have to die alone. Good dog!
ok ok between Athena's explanations and Sevans' i THINK it may start to sink in...
ReplyDeleteI just dont like there to be so many unanswered things. I hate it when movies end so openly. I am such a cut and dry person and will doubt my own interpretations so i was grasping for something to "get on board with"
Theen: LOOOOOVE your redemption theory on desmond! and your explanation of the children being taken away so quickly because they didnt have to be redeemed because they are young and "pure"
I will say that I too cried seeing them all together, but it was secondary to being so confused.
I still argue with Justin that the plane was not in fact flight 815 but the Ajira flight...its an on going debate in this household.
I plan on watching the finale again - with this new wisdom and see if it "moves" me...or if i even drink the kool-aid you all are serving!
Although i wasnt all too thrilled that Jack & Kate were together in the end because I felt that she always just "loved" him out of convenience i was THRILLED when juliet and sawyer got together and like were "awakened" simultaneously.
*did anyone notice that the medium that brought together Sawyer & Juliet was the same candy bar that Jack gave to Claire, and Jacob gave to Jack?! something tells me that the Apollo bar may be one of the writers fave candies
::sigh:: i will reluctantly go along with these theories... still just wish they were more "black and white"! Thanks for showing me the "light" though (ok ok that was the last one)
C- I think the writers chose the Apollo bar b/c the Greek god Apollo was associated with medicine and healing. Every time that someone was given or helped to get the Apollo bar, they were aided in some other, deeper, way. I may not see the big picture with Lost, but I pick up on the little symbolic details :)
ReplyDeleteMeg, that's awesome! That's why I love to talk about the show with other people, everyone always catches cool things like that. I wanted to tell you that I guess ABC released a statement saying that network executives added in the photos of the crash at the end on their own, the LOST people didn't know they were going to do that- they said it was a means for viewers to "digest" the show before the local news started or something? I knew you were wondering about that, so just wanted to pass it along :-)
ReplyDeleteC - if it helps, I'm with you on the plane not being 815 but the Ajira plane carrying Lapidus, Sawyer, Kate, etc. I think that's why Jack was smiling, he could die knowing that his friends were able to leave the island. I totally get it about wanting answers, I'm the same way (show me in black and white why Hurley knew to pick those numbers for the lottery; tell me why women couldn't have babies, etc etc)...sort of like, why create all of these coincidences/tie-ins/mysteries/insane things and NOT explain them?! I guess we have to look at it as - the show was about people reacting to this crazy island, not WHY the island was crazy...but that's why, while I do love the ending, I think it was a tiny bit of a cop out. But the more I think about it, the more OK I am with it.
Also, sorry for all the posts! But I keep thinking about the show and wanting to talk about it more! Lol
Theen- TOTALLY keep posting! thats why this blog exists. Actually this afternoon I am going to watch the Finale again, after reading the article you sent me I think the ambiguity might gel a little more within me! I suggest everyone do the same. I will post a new blog on my "second coming" after watching it again! - im sure ill catch somethings
ReplyDelete